GuyG, mavdo and alex_f: Sorry, I won't be able to debate anymore for the time being because I am very busy at the moment. Though anyway, I hope to debate with all of you again soon on Get Wokingham and it has been a pleasure speaking to you all.

Regards.

wokinghamworker.

   To put the discussion back on topic. I'd be happy to pay double the council tax if the our contracts were open to publicly scrutiny and tenders broken town into piecemeal parts.

This way tenders for each part are more competitive, comparable and fulfill-able by smaller local companies rather than drawing a large temporary community who will destabilize resources when they arrive leave a void while they leave.

The council must have a sustainable income with no dependency on section the 106 contributions which give us a quick boost but come out of the community time and disposable income in the long run in terms of mortgage payments. Just like any other loan this compounds the problem.

Politically taking on this invisible debt allows the party in power to be seen as a success, advertising where they have secured funds. But 10 years later there is no money to maintain it and less disposable income to generate tax on.

I moved to a Market Town for a reason.

   Dr on 5 x average salary fine.

Speculative gambler of pensions taking 80x the average salary as a bonus when the easiest way of success is complicated insider trading. Not fine.

Off shore payments for rigged losses Not fine.

That the two above have no productivity value at all and are the most well rewarded. Not fine.

Tony Blair on £2m contract negotiating oil contracts after having been part of the invasion party. Not fine.

Wealthy using their profits to purchase homes (AKA shelter, one of life's necessities) and earn about £800 / house for doing nothing of value requiring that another family fail to build a nest egg? Not fine.

That the landlords estate can be tied up in a trust framework 'loaned' for 7 years and then the paperwork disappear or passed on or within a business from generation to generation devoid of inheritance tax breeding generations of lords and serfs of capitalism. Not fine.

MP on 2x average salary from a company who's industry interests they can act on in Parliament as long as the Prime Minister agrees. Not fine.

The ability for this wealth to be moved around offshore devoid of tax and traceability of motives? Not fine.

Pay for honors lords having any rights over our laws. Not fine.

Out of work father of 6 drinking and smoking. Not fine.

Average working salary below what is needed for a couple to save up a deposit to purchase own home and start a family before they are in their mid 30s? Time for a revolution.

   @wokinghamworker: I also have respect for you putting this up, as it is the ideals of Voltaire here “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Please do not take what i say in anyway as a negative, i am merely trying to inform and teach here, as you are finding arguements here where there are none as we are not commenting on that.

In regards to the dangerous workers arguement, i am sorry but you are showing a naivety there. Being a Coal miner is vastly more dangerous than that of a tailor, and that is before you take into account the negative health effects that it has working in that environment. My Grandfather died of lung cancer 24 years ago because of his work in the mines, my grandmother is still going on at over 90.

in regards to Doctors and training etc, i would much rather teeth be cleaned/repaired by someone who has spent years training to be a dentist than by my friend who is a trained nurse. the Length of training needed for these varies but given the time and investment needed to complete these is completely different to the time and investment needed to be a store assistant, all roles are essential to society no matter what, however some need more time and effort than others and cannot be viewed as "equals" per see.

You did mention some of your views of your "ideology" and it was interesting as it is not what i would consider communism (this is me as someone with a degree in politics and international relations and did more modules than was probably healthy in political ideologies) I would consider what you are talking about to be a form of Libertarian Anarchism.

That being said i feel that we should draw this conversation to a close as we have been drawn well of track, but one thing i do say, i do not know how old you are but i do urge you to take A Level Politics specifically political ideologies and to always keen an open mind.

   @wokinghamworker - at the last election, one cadidate who stood against Redwood said we should all be paid the same. He was for pure equality and communism. His name was Robin Smith. He got 96 votes, most of which were probably friends and family. That's less than 30% of the votes given to the Looney party's "Top Cat" Owen, and his party wanted to die the Thames purple! Communism is not wanted, and implementing it would destroy our economy. It will never happen. Get over it and get on with your life.

   @wokinghamworker - I admire your courage for putting that up.

You however consistently misinterpret what people are saying and are just plain wrong in alot of cases.

Firstly - noone is arguing about the importance of people's jobs. We have been talking about the stress / danger / difficulty of jobs. I agree that any one profession is just as important as the other. The doctor wouldn't be doing what he is doing without the nurse, they both wouldn't get very far without the services of cleaners, none of these would be fed without the farmers, supermarket employees, etc. I am personally against putting particular professions on pedestals (actually against the culture I was brought up in!).

To say that the needles of a tailor provide as dangerous an environment as those down the coal mines again shows your lack of both common sense and (I would have absolutely no doubt) the statistics.

Also saying most jobs are the same - I am assuming you are not / are not planning to be a doctor / consultant, RIBA architect, chartered surveyor, chartered accountant, chartered engineer, CISSP or CLAS consultant, vet, dentist, university lecturer / professor or any other profession that requires you to study for years verging on decades to even reach the starting block.

As a fellow Wokingham resident I would really urge you to please open yourself to more experience, live a little, and approach politics when more life experience has been gained. This is coming from someone who is constantly finding myself learning, taking advice, being corrected, knowing my own bounds, and knowing I simply do not have the life experience and wisdom yet to even consider being a representative in politics. One reason why we have the mess we do in the country is exactly that - career politicians who effectively do not know what they are governing and defining policy for things they have no clue about.

   mavdo, alex_f, GuyG and everyone else. You can see my responses to these recent comments on you tube. The link is below which you can copy and paste into your search engine if you want to look at the video.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3_Yk9WzXE0

   100% agreed, some jobs can be done with little to no training, and some need years of education followed by years of experience and additional professional training. And even then, that's sometimes entering the profession as an assistant, associate, or tea-maker.

How they are paid *usually* reflects the difficulty and amount of hard work required to attain the skills for the job (dictating the competition for it) and the demand for the job, combined with level of responsibility (sometimes known as 'stress'!). And I don't see why that should change (or how it could realistically change). The only thing which should be changed is to ensure everyone, regardless of background, have the same opportunities - e.g. support for all to go to Uni if they want to and have the ability to.

People above me where I work are often prime pickings during redundancy time, and given the greater visibility to senior management, a few mistakes and you are out of the door with a seriously damaging notch on your CV.

And of course, we aren't all highly-paid premiership footballers... out of principle?

Haha - I clearly wouldn't pick a political fight with GuyG any day. And mavdo I'm glad I'm usually on the right side of you too.

   Well I support Alex_f. I've done many jobs and I can say some were far easier and less stressful than others and I wouldn't want to do my manager's job or their manager's job without a significant rise in salary to compensate for the rise in stress and responsibility.

None of us have been through the years of training to be a doctor, nor have the skills. They are responsible for people's lives. How is that not harder than a waiter a bit worried that you aren't being served your pizza?

And you believe your version of communism is better than everyone else's and will work this time. And you are arguing political ideals with someone who studied it as university for half a decade.

You are living in cloud cukoo land, you really are.

   @wokinghamworker: i didn't say being a coal miner was as difficult as a Tailor... i said being a coal miner was more dangerous. There are skills in doing everything, but some people's skills leave them exposed to more dangerous environments, a Coal pit is VASTLY more dangerous than a tailors shop

   wokinghamworker - your point was stress / danger of jobs - not difficulty. I have no doubt it requires a good degree of skill to be a tailor. But if you want to go down that route - yes some jobs are more difficult than others, otherwise everyone would be vying for the top paid jobs.

   This list clearly shows that some professions are more dangerous than others - http://listverse.com/2008/08/26/top-10-most-fatal-occupations/ (it's the US but our professions don't exactly differ greatly from theirs).

You tire me out, you really do. You believe what you want to believe, don't let facts get in the way at all.

Say what you want about David Cameron, I wouldn't say I'm his greatest fan either, it's a very easy and popular thing to say his job is easy and no stress. If you think it is easy to be responsible for the country, meaning one very bad decision making you public enemy number 1 or provoke a war with another nation, you're a 5 year old clearly.

   Guy. Not saying you. But the vested interests are easy to hide. Kids, offshore or hope of a job after. That is why greater transparency is needed in how our money is spent and planning permissions not a profit making exercise in themselves.

Levelling the playing field with standardised candidate publication will help too.

   GuyG A tailor is just as difficult as a miner, because many people don't have the skills to repair clothes, just in the same way many people don't have the skills to get coal out of the mines. I'm sorry but I don't see what your point is here.

Scroungers should get no benefit, full stop if the job is there and they refuse to do it. Don't give scroungers any benefit, otherwise they will never learn that benefits is not a lifestyle choice.

   alex_f What if the cleaner has to handle very toxic chemicals which causes a high risk of the cleaner harming themselves, is that not stressful?

What about a cleaner who clears up the puke of a pensioner in an old person's home? I don't think that job is any less stressful than what the parasite David Cameron does.