Believe me I know intimately what's involved in the regeneration - for no other reason than I am a saddo and trawl planning and various docs available!

I'm just going to state what I take from the plans. Firstly, the majority of the new homes look like being built where the current car park is, so there will probably be little additional concreting here (or less, if you count gardens). However, the new road and some homes will be going over part of Elms Field, so yes some will be concreted over there. The new shops are indeed over a green field but also over the old car park. The supermarket, as mentioned, is mostly over the site we have at the moment where the council offices used to be.

It's a little misleading to say that it is a 'small area' of green retained, and Elms Field will be largely concreted over. The current Elms Field isn’t one big space -it has a road or two going through it, it is partially concreted for tennis courts, as well as the car parks and the old offices.

My opinion is that the current space is not ideally configured or particularly attractive - I like the idea of a central space as proposed. Whenever I have passed the field, I have not seen it extensively used other than as a playground - I really don't think it is fulfilling its potential. I've lived in a lot of towns with attractive spaces, I mentioned Guildford, but also Leamington Spa (which Wilson Bowden has also been developing - quite well, might I add), Richmond, places up north. I've loved them – all with far better configured green spaces than Elms Field (though I know it could never be a Richmond Park granted). So I am in favour of re-configuration, and I like some of the ideas in the designs so far. I would love for the space to be bigger, but I think overall what is proposed is far better than what we have now.

   Alex_f .

Elmsfield is going to be largely concreted over.

Part of the supermarket will be on the site of the former council offices - once featured as the third most ugly building in the country I believe - designed and built for WBC!

There will be other shops and about 200 houses with a small area of green retained.

I doubt the councillors would be gambling their own money on this foolhardy scheme - but they don't mind gambling ours!

Interesting that Wilson Bowden who were a partner are happy to be a contractor.

Why aren't the Lib Dems vocal in opposition? I suspect this will all end in tears.

   LarryS, come on lads - as we're all passionate about the regeneration (in different ways), you might be interested to see this article which has just popped up: http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s/2118894_find_out_more_about_wokingham_enterprises

   As you are 'come on lads', you will know then very well that I am all for retaining (or expanding) green space in the town centre from our previous discussion. So no, I am not, for the final time. There are aspects of the regeneration I would also rather be different - but I haven't been around to have my say when the main decisions were being made (I only moved here about a year ago). If I were to dream it up from scratch, one field as big as can be would be my choice - like Stoke Park in Guildford, perfect for events. I'd have the one or two pubs on Denmark St opening beer gardens backing onto the field. But given what has been decided before I arrived, I'd like to try to be optimistic about what's going to happen.

One other point on this though - where is the supermarket going to go? NOT on a green field. It's going where the old council offices and car park were.

I know the difference between opinion and fact - I think however I was thinking you were talking about the future whereas now it's clear you're talking about the present - which we can agree on.

   Alex-f

I see you are new to the area. The new supermarket and shops will represent concreting over the greenfields of Elms field - so apparently yes you are. Don't sound so surprised!

If there was a demand for designer shops and there are many empty shops in Wokingham they would be here - so yes it is a fact.

Why don't people understand the difference between an opinion and a fact.

I am in favour of the redevelopment of Market Place/Peach Street and of course the earlier sceme involved redevelopment of the Rose Street carpark. That could have been re-designed to incude a supermarket/other shops without upsetting the balance of the town centre and without building on greenfields.

There are alternatives - the current proposal is not in my opinion a good one or one likely to be successful

nb for clarity I have two e.mail adresses - I am also Champs!

   @Woky Local - that is actually a splendid idea - the same could potentially apply to other parts of the town as well - temporary pedestrianisation (e.g. during the weekend) of Denmark Street is something I've heard suggested alot, and possibly even improvement / widening of the footpaths in some parts of Peach Street (given parts are so narrow anyways, though granted I'm not sure how this will affect the traffic).

I think there's a public space / realm type thing starting soon which might be an avenue to suggest such matters.

   I guess I'm negative about this particular piece of the jigsaw because of the way it looks. That artists impression looks modern, but soul-less. I see similarities with the 1960's buildings which have aged poorly. In fact, did the same conversation happen back in the 60's? If the building was more like the entrance to the Waitrose development in Rose Street (i.e. more in keeping with the quality of construction in the area) I would be a little happier. One question about the bus/cycle lane outside the building. Can this be done away with? Would it not be better to re-route traffic so that the space can be given back to pedestrians, cafe tables, and children's play equipment? All I'm reading is a desire to 'build more retail space'. If there's a demand, then fine..... use our resources to support it...... but please build with character rather than patching up mistakes with a facade.

   LarryS - thank you, really appreciate it.

Champs - oh so now I'm in favour of concreting over green fields? Where did that come from?

I wouldn't exactly say that any of the towns you mentioned are littered with designer shops, Guildford and Reading have one or two but nothing to write home about (I used to live in Guildford so know it intimately). None of the towns you mention are particularly unique. Something I would hope we are aiming for rather than to be a mini Reading. One Westfield takes ages to get to through some of the worst traffic, whilst the other is at the other side of London so would take even longer to get there, I wouldn't consider either for my usual weekly browse around town. I agree with you though that performing more events within our town would no doubt improve things and I'd love to see more of this.

And anyway, unless you have evidence that every designer and big brand has already turned Wokingham down, then I'm afraid it's still not fact. It's a prediction. I can only hope that you don't turn out to be right.

I can only speak personally, but there are times when I really can't be bothered to go into Reading for shopping, and end up in Bracknell. I don't usually enjoy this and if Wokingham came close to having the (particularly clothing) retail offering that Bracknell does, then Wokingham would be my choice. I think Wokingham is a lovely place to walk around, a nice place to stop for a coffee and it has some great places for lunch and dinner. When comparing to my shopping experiences in Bracknell where these things are particularly missing, personally I think that this means alot and would hopefully complement and enhance a retail experience Wokingham is hoping to achieve. Hopefully other people will share my view. And, a touchy subject I know, but the 10,000 odd households who will be coming to Wokingham in the SDLs will want to shop somewhere, I really hope they also share my view.

   Wokingham never has been and never will be a shopping centre. It's a great town to live, great to work, excellent for education and longevity of life and has very many good features.

Which shops do you people in favour of concreting over the greenfields ( Larry S and Alex f ) think will come to Wokingham. Why not concentrate on promoting more events on the greenfields and improve the town that way.

The facts are, and yes they are facts, that with Bracknell, Reading, Maidenhead, Guildford and Camberley all nearby, the phenomenal success of the two Westfields, out of town shops (eg The Point at Bracknell) out of town designer retail developments and of course internet shopping that no designer or big brands will come to Wokingham and pay market rents.

Only our councillors would gamble £80 - £100 m (?).

I would suggest the majority are against this ( did you see any positive posts in the display in the Market Place shop earlier in the year?)

Some people think they could change the flow of The Thames!

   Well said Alex F. Both stores always seem busy when I'm in them. As for the accusation that you're a council employee or, heaven forbid, a councillor. That is presumably because you are clearly not a cynic like many on here and are prepared to be reasonable and see the positive. I would suggest that you, and your views, are far more representative of average Wokingham folk than many of the tired and predicatable comments posted on these boards. Our town is dying on its feet. At last we have some brave politicians who are not put off by the negative, cynical few who will always find fault in everything. And no, I'm not a councillor and no, I don't work for the council. I was born here 50 years ago. I've seen my town decline and I would love to see it flourish again. All Wokingham people need to get behind the regeneration scheme - we're unlikely to get another chance. Sure, it's not perfect and needs a bit of tweaking here and there but let's try and be constructive, not destructive.

Rant over - carry on!

   Champs - I'm really getting pretty tired and irritated with this accusation that I'm somehow a councillor or employee of WBC just because I try to see the positives and maintain a positive outlook with things. Do you do this with all newbies to the town? Drive them to be as miserable as you seem to be? Let me at least express my (mostly positive) opinions like I let you express your opinions without being targetted and falsely being accused of what I assure you I am not. I personally think my arguments are usually relatively well balanced and considered (admittedly with a optimistic slant); it's very easy to just slate. It's FAR more difficult to do the opposite and I guess I'm opening myself to being challenged alot more.

I say the two stores seem to be going relatively strong (I admit that was meant to sound like an assumption, rather than a matter of fact, please include "I'm assuming") as they have been there for quite some time and usually have a reasonable number of people in them whenever I have visited. Without actually seeing their books, I'm making a judgement on what I've seen, much like all of your points so far.

   Alex_f sorry to say you sound like a councillor or a local authority employee.

You make the assumption as a statement of fact " we have two main stream drugstores going relatively strong."

How do you know that - the answer is you don't.

We are going to end up with more and more empty shops. I understand town centre rents were about £50 sq ft.

Now most new shops agree rent free periods and substantially lower rents and less repairing obligations.

Will anyone from WBC disclose what rents are required for their folly to break even - of course not because they know the figures don't add up.

One Councillor, Matt Deagan, resigned before he had to sign off the deal - I wonder why and how many others will follow.

Wokingham could become the new Greece!

   Whilst I agree that the prescription trade will no doubt be affected by the new surgery, we do still currently have 2 mainstream drugstores going relatively strong in the town. If both of these can survive currently (and Boots being the stronger brand out of the two), surely this is a positive sign for them? Granted though that Boots will probably have to cater more for the usual cosmetics, teeth and skin care and flu and cold type medication items.

   Good points Champs.... Oh dear, Boots may be gone even sooner as the new Surgery will be massive and have the right to fill prescriptions. bye bye boots as the prescription trade is very profitable ... so we are then left with a shoe shop (generally shoe shops are closing down, even in RDG and Bstoke, as they get incorporated into fashion shops) a sports shop and a jewellers. more empty shops...

   I think it's more accurate to say the opposite (i.e. a stallion covered in **** - can't think of a good one!). Wokingham is (was) a charming market town with character, which has been littered with bits of terrible 20th century architecture like this. Viewing this optimistically, I'd like to think that this will be one step towards restoring the town to former glory.

   @Woky Local - The phase your looking for is: "you can Put Lipstick on a Pig... It's Still a Pig".

   The relocation of the doctor's surgery into Rose Street will I understand include a dispensary - bye bye pharmacy in Broad Street and Boots?

When will WBC accept Wokingham will never be a preferred shopping centre. They just will not listen!!!

More new shops = more empty shops.

   PoneRana - if I remember correctly, I think this has been marked out in the masterplan (the strategy until 2026), though not in the current regeneration (i.e. by 2016). It was marked as a site to be developed in the longer term (2020's), I'm guessing because it is not under council ownership, and as the Market Place end of Peach Street is, this was deemed as the 'quick win'.

   What about doing something about the other end of Peach Street? There is a row of shops there that are even uglier. A major step towards improving that end of the town would be to have a bus stop so that people, particularly the elderly could start their shopping there.

   This area of the town is one of the many ugly parts of Wkm so it is good to see there will be some remodelling. However, it is not regeneration as we will end up with the same shops, more flats and no leisure facilities. It is only a matter of time until Boots take a close look at these plans and see that there will be a supermarket built on their doorstep. When the prescription trade is taken over by the supermarket (even morrisons would insist on that along with being given handouts for being their in the first place) as well as a large chunk of their normal business, Boots would have to move on. Neverthless I like the design (now that it has finally downloaded!).

   Excellent to see the first visible step in the regeneration now starting.

The current facades, along with most of Peach Street, have zero architectural merit and let the rest of Wokingham down.

I personally think these new designs are significantly improved from the ones shown last year. They're probably not to everyone's taste but certainly better than what is there currently, and probably better than if we tried to fake the existing architecture.

Still downloading the massive 67MB PDF design and access statement though. Please compress some of your images for web-distributed PDFs in the future ;)

   London 2012..... Inspire a generation WBC..... Paper over the cracks and leave it for another generation

Ugly.