News

Sceptics anger at homeopath GP's lecture

By Victoria Smith
March 08, 2012

Sceptics are planning to protest outside a homeopathy lecture in Wokingham next week.

Members of the Reading Skeptics group criticised homeopathic remedies ahead of the planned talk from Dr Jayne Donegan, a GP and homeopath, on ‘Nursing Your Child Supportively Through Acute Illness’ at Wokingham Town Hall in Market Place.

However talk organisers from Thames Valley Homeopaths have defended the event, saying it aims to empower parents with more information about treatment methods.

Group chairman Margaret Kincade said it was a shame the Reading Skeptics had felt it necessary to plan a protest for the event.

Protest leader Michael Agg, of Brookside in Wokingham, said: “Dr Donegan advocates the use of homeopathy, a pre-scientific belief that has been proven to have no benefit beyond that of sugar pills.”

The Reading Skeptics promote science and evidence-based policy in the county and are warning Wokingham people to be wary of the advice expected to be given at the talk.

Mr Agg said: “As patients we need our GPs to understand the risks and benefits of the treatments they prescribe.

“That a GP should recommend homeopathy, especially for sick children, calls into question the doctor’s ability to weigh the evidence.”

Karen Hall said: “Nursing a child through illness is a harrowing experience; offering a placebo in these circumstances is at best insulting, if not exploitative and dangerous.

“Most parents would be uncomfortable with advice to allow their sick child to recover without offering any effective treatment.

“The complete absence of any scientific evidence for the efficacy of homeopathy is by now well-documented; it is therefore potentially harmful to suggest parents should rely on treatment that is known to be ineffective.

“Homeopathic medicine aims to treat like with like. For example, caffeine is used to treat sleeplessness.

“If this doesn’t sound sufficiently nonsensical already, the caffeine is diluted and diluted to such an extent that no molecules of caffeine actually remain in the water.

“After dilution, the water is vigorously shaken by 10 hard strikes against an elastic body, and this supposedly ensures that the water contains a ‘memory’ of the caffeine.”

Mrs Kincade defended the talk, saying the event would not advocate cutting out medical treatment from doctors and that it would focus on acute, not serious, illness, such as fevers, cuts and bruises.

She said: “We are talking about informing and empowering parents to understand what a fever is doing and what they can do to help.

“You should use medication when relevant and the talk is about knowing when medication is relevant.”

In 2010 the House of Commons science and technology committee called for the NHS to stop funding homeopathy, labelling the treatment as having just a placebo effect.

Mrs Kincade said: “Placebos are very powerful.

“It is not something you should dismiss. Everybody who goes to the GP can get a placebo effect because you trust you are going to get help and talking about it.

“For some people the placebo effect is getting that piece of paper and walking out of the surgery.

“You can’t rule out the placebo effect. There is lots of evidence that homeopathy works but some people don’t want to see it.”

Mrs Kincade pointed out that of 140 randomised controlled trials, which are a type of clinical trial, that took place for homeopathic remedies by the end of 2009, there were 74 with firm conclusions and of those 60 were positively in favour of homeopathy.

The talk at Wokingham Town Hall will take place on Wednesday, March 14, from 7.30pm.

The talk has been organised by Thames Valley Homeopaths and tickets cost £10 per person.

To book a place visit www.tvhoms.org.uk

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Sequana said:

"HatsofDoom: The Swiss study is in German. Do you read German?"

You are aware there is an official English translation of that poor report on homeopathy, aren't you?

Alan Henness
12/03/2012 at 11:37

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16883077

Sequana
11/03/2012 at 23:09

In late 2011, the Swiss government's report on homeopathic medicine represents the most comprehensive evaluation of homeopathic medicine ever written by a government and was just published in book form in English (Bornhoft and Matthiessen, 2011). This breakthrough report affirmed that homeopathic treatment is both effective and cost-effective and that homeopathic treatment should be reimbursed by Switzerland's national health insurance program.

Sequana
11/03/2012 at 23:08

HatsofDoom: The Swiss study is in German. Do you read German?

Sequana
11/03/2012 at 23:03

I think most people are forgetting that Jayne is also a GP which, in todays modern society makes her more than qualified to lecture on this subject (unlike most people here who have chosen to make comments regarding health care) She has also raised children of her own using both conventional and alternative medicines. I recently went to see Jayne talk and at no point did she recommend never using conventional medicine. Her lecture primarily focuses on the importance of fresh air, rest and good nutrition (as did Florence Nightingale, who alot of people hold in very high esteem)..common sense for most, but also empowering for parents to know that they dont need to panic at the first sign of a cold or fever and rush their child to sit for hours in an emergency waiting room (only to be sent home with a bottle of calpol). The only in depth mention of homeopathy was a handout given towards the end with suggested ideas to help if your child has a fever. I think if people feel strongly enough to comment on this, perhaps they should attend the lecture to know exactly what it is they are protesting about.

Gemma Hawkins
11/03/2012 at 09:45

Blimey,

when you see the advocates of homeopathy feeling the need to astroturf a sleepy Berkshire news website with massive posts on how homeopathy "works" from as far away as Canada, you'd be forgiven for thinking that they protesteth too much, wouldn't you???

Here's the definitive explanation of how homeopathy works, by the way:-

http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/

HatsOfDoom
10/03/2012 at 00:17

"Homeopaths have defended the event, saying it aims to empower parents with more information about treatment methods."

Yeah, that's what the parents of Cameron Ayres, Gloria Thomas and Luca Monsellato said; three children who died because of their parents faith in this pre-science cult therapy.

Skepticat UK
09/03/2012 at 18:18

Lauriej1

" Since when did pseudoskeptics offer anything but dodgy philosophical arguments about other people's health care choices? These people hardly belong in any dialogue among real world health care providers and their patients. They have no medical knowledge or expertise or any background in health care technology."

You do not need any background whatsoever in medical knowledge to understand that homeopathy is bogus, GCSE-level chemistry, physics or common sense is good enough. Homeopathy can and should be dismissed out of hand as impossible. Despite this, those genuinely interested in helping people have spent alot of time, effort and money on high quality clinical trials that demonstrate clearly how useless homeopathy is. Despite this, people like you refuse to see the light. Pathetic!

And what is this newfangled term "pseudoskeptic"?

Andybbn, Norway
09/03/2012 at 14:32

Jonnybones said:

"The term skeptic in the UK (as opposed to the correct spelling) denotes a political group intent on pursuing a destructive agenda against homeopathy."

Evidence?

"They lie about the subject making statements such as 'there is no evidence that homeopathy works' that 'homeopathy is dangerous because of the danger of depriving patients of life saving treatment' etc."

Straw man. There certainly is evidence that homeopathy works, it just that it's so biased and such poor quality evidence that we should not be basing healthcare decisions on it. Also, to cherry-pick that stuff as 'good evidence' when there are better, higher quality, more independent, less biased studies that show that homeopathy has no effect over placebo is where the deception from many homeopaths and their trade bodies lie.

"Fact: There are many studies both in vitro and in vivo in animals and humans too demonstrating an effect beyond placebo for homeopathic medicines."

Wow! In vitro studies? Do you think we should accept a drug from Big Pharma that showed promise in vitro? If not, why the double standards? Besides, the in vitro studies of homeopathy were so ridiculously flawed. And I suggest you look up the possible other explanations for the animal studies.

"Fact: whilst iatrogenic (doctor caused) disease is so prevalent (third largest cause of death in the US) there is no evidence that anyone has been harmed directly or indirectly by homeopathy other than the odd anecdote peddled by those with an agenda."

If you want to bring up the numbers of iatrogenic deaths (not that it has anything to do with the efficacy of homeopathy, of course), please only do so if you also detail the numbers of lives saved by conventional medicine, the number of people living longer and with a higher quality of life because of conventional medicine, the number of babies who survive birth because of conventional medicine and the number of those who are suffering less and in less pain because of conventional medicine.

And then give the same numbers for alternative therapies.

"Fact: Two of the most vociferous critics of homeopathy, Ernst and Goldacre have both acknowledged in the past the quality of some homeopathy research."

And your point is? Which studies? What did they show?

"Suggestion to the Reading Skeptics; Either look at the subject with an open mind or find something useful to do with your time that would be helpful to society rather than prevent honest folk going about their business."

First, provide the good evidence that homeopathy or other pseudo science actually provides some benefit or other then we can start to talk about people making a business out of it.

Alan Henness
09/03/2012 at 11:19

If individuals want to spend their money on sugar pills and water that's fine with me. I start to get annoyed when the NHS wastes money on it. The placebo effect is great but please don't pretend that it is anything else.

Jai
09/03/2012 at 10:29

Since when did pseudoskeptics offer anything but dodgy philosophical arguments about other people's health care choices? These people hardly belong in any dialogue among real world health care providers and their patients. They have no medical knowledge or expertise or any background in health care technology. They are social media mouthpieces who seem to be hung up on Scientism which is closer to religious fundamentalism than anything else. Medicine is not science, it's health care technology. The last UK Health Care Technology report showed that only 11% of conventional medical treatments are of known beneficial value... Not such a hot review, is it? Numerous medical associations and reports from other Western nations have "evidence-based medicine" on their wish lists, but sadly this has amounted to a Utopian vision that doesn't play out in the real world. For someone to attempt to apply this dubious double standard to other medical systems like Homeopathy is a misleading philosophical ploy. Moreover, a recent meta-analysis of placebo effect in conventional drugs vs. homeopathic remedies available on PubMed showed no difference. Parents who attend Dr. Donegan's lecture will obtain information that will benefit themselves and their children despite the attempted interference by people who should be ignored.

lauriej1, Toronto, Canada
09/03/2012 at 10:20

Another great resource for factual information about Homeopathy as well as a breakdown on positive research can be found at www.extraordinarymedicine.org Pseudoskeptical arguments regarding Homeopathy are nothing more than philosophical opinions and should be regarded as such. And they really don't belong in the realm of dialogue among medical clinicians -- you know, real world health care professionals such as MD's, Naturopathic doctors, Homeopaths, Chiropractors, Osteopaths and TCM practitioners. India is currently a hot-bed of Homeopathic research ranging from nano-particle studies to in vitro and in vivo. Prof. Luc Montagnier is presently conducting high dilution research in China. Many positive studies can be found through the Chinese Integrative Medicine website. Claims that Homeopathy has been "disproved" etc. are pure nonsense concocted by people who are social media mouthpieces for the drug industry. Parents who attend Dr. Donegan's lecture will be delighted at the factual information they obtain. Homeopathy offers excellent treatment outcomes for colic, for example, that are unheard of in conventional medicine, as well as for mastitis as a result of breastfeeding.

lauriej1, Toronto, Canada
09/03/2012 at 09:58

mkincade said:

"In a recent, 6 year study of 6544 outpatients at Bristol Homeopathic Hospital it was found that homeopathic treatment had produced a positive improvement in 70% of cases."

That was a customer satisfaction survey that did not measure treatment outcomes. It did not show that customers' perceived improvement was due to any sugar pills they might have taken. I'd prefer health decisions to based on something a good bit more solid than marketing surveys run by those with vested interests.

Alan Henness
09/03/2012 at 00:02

Homeopathical said:

"The sceptics' agenda is to disempower by denying freedom of choice."

Forget what you think anyone's agenda is because it is irrelevant to the question at hand: does homeopathy work any better than placebo?

As HatsOfDoom pointed out, the answer is clear: if you take the best, most independent, least biased, most rigorous, most carefully conducted and recorded trials, they show there is no effect over placebo. They are just inert sugar pills - nothing more.

Alan Henness
08/03/2012 at 23:49

The term skeptic in the UK (as opposed to the correct spelling) denotes a political group intent on pursuing a destructive agenda against homeopathy. They lie about the subject making statements such as 'there is no evidence that homeopathy works' that 'homeopathy is dangerous because of the danger of depriving patients of life saving treatment' etc. Fact: There are many studies both in vitro and in vivo in animals and humans too demonstrating an effect beyond placebo for homeopathic medicines. Fact: whilst iatrogenic (doctor caused) disease is so prevalent (third largest cause of death in the US) there is no evidence that anyone has been harmed directly or indirectly by homeopathy other than the odd anecdote peddled by those with an agenda. Fact: Two of the most vociferous critics of homeopathy, Ernst and Goldacre have both acknowledged in the past the quality of some homeopathy research. Suggestion to the Reading Skeptics; Either look at the subject with an open mind or find something useful to do with your time that would be helpful to society rather than prevent honest folk going about their business.