It's actually a win for all of us who do use the Cafe on a regular basis, and a win for all of us who choose to stand against such unreasoned demands. Unless you do both I'm not sure how far the 'advice' below would travel...Charity does make good business sense because it seeks to serve others and not itself.

   I guess this is good news and a win for the common man. However, long-term this couple should revisit the sense of investing (allegedly) all thi smoney into a rental. Charity is not good business sense and the best approach would be an agreed plan for incremental rises over the next 5 years to allow both parties an opportunity to decide the best future path.

   Sorry.. new to the posting thing....

   The Council should be ashamed of how they have dealt with this matter. More proof that the Council is run by the out of touch. The Council need to learn they are the only business to live on hand outs !! : and not business acumen. Are the scouts and Judo club being asked to pay £22,000?

If you divide £22,000 in to monthly payments: it equates to roughly the amount you would pay for a mortgage on a £400,000 property. So the council are asking The Pinewood Café to buy a busy pub in Devon or a Care home in Wales. Could I suggest the Councillor’s look at this website: www.WelcomeToThe RealWorld.com

Angus Balfour

   Don't you just hate it when that happens...

   This is happening all over the country. Due to funding issues Councils are jacking up their rents to cover their expenditure. The alternative is to cut services. All those vacant town centre premises are testimony to the failure of this policy.

Granted some of these closures are from large companies fallen on hard times eg. Game, Woolies, Habitat, Thorntons etc. The question is why, sometimes years later, are they still empty? The big boys won't move in because times are hard and they may be putting their cash behind their online services.

The small entrepeneurs can't move in as the unrealistic rents/rates make the business completely unviable from day one. So the properties are left to decay along with the high street. Councils still don't seem to have come to terms with the fact that they are part of the problem.

My brother in law runs a once profitable cafe, on a once prosperous (some may say "posh") high street in the north of England. Apart from a couple of banks the shops are/were almost exclusively private ventures. Due to the economic turnaround the "For Rent" signs started going up - and they stayed up.

Currently he's breaking even and just about making it through the recession. He too has been fighting a 1000% rate increase. He will have no choice but to close immediately should the increase go through. After all he has a finite number of covers; once every table is full it's full. It is unlikely anyone will be able to make a profit on his site with this new rent, due to the size of the premises. So it will add to the ever growing collection of "For Rent" boards. How long do you think someone would stay in business if they passed on a 1000% increase - "Can I have a Cappucino?"..."That'll be £22 please."

Perhaps one day Councils will factor in a business's turnover into any and all rent/rate increases. Although I doubt it - private sector pragmatism vs public sector dogmatism.

Better the council take £5000 than nothing at all...

   It's legalised racketeering and extortion. There's no other way of describing it.

   Agreed Tim and Beef. It sounds as if the council were trying to force out the couple, who have improved this property significantly at their own expense, to gain the benefit of that for a new tennant. That's taking advantage of this investment for their own benefit, which would be realised only IF they could get a tenant willing to pay £22k per year. They initially put forward a reduced rent so that this investment was possible, but there is no way they could make that money back in a year. Now the council is putting rent up to an amount at or above what they would charge if the property was rented originally in its current state.

They knew the council would put up rent, but they didn't know how much, and it wasn't agreed in advance of the investment they made. That was probably naiive, and the council are preying on that. But credit to the council for now, they have had a think and realised it may have been a mistake. If they decide to put the rent up to £22k after they've thought about it more, they'll lose a tennant, and potentially open themselve up to legal action to reclaim some of the money this couple invested in the property on the council's behalf, depending on what agreements were made initially.

So I say put the rent up - the couple were expecting that, but still keep in mind that this couple have saved the council money, much more than £20k per year in rental difference, in property investment. At least let the couple make some of this back.

You wouldn't see a dragon investing money in a business if there was no return on that investment, and, in fact, that investment was lost entirely to the council benefit.

   Could not agree more Tim.

   Pip pip!

   Bit shocked at your response Badg...I just don't think Wokingham Without should be looking to make large margin from small enterprise. The Jordan's have invested in the Councils property they are renting at huge cost and in the fullness of time it will be returned to the Council to their benefit, and the benefit of us folk who elect their members every four years... I think we're all saying that the expected increase should be reasonable, not terminal.

   Cage in that last paragraph should be cafe..

   So what was the rent before they took over paid by the previous incumbent? There was no way it was in the 22k region and I fail to see why they have the sudden sharp increase.

Yes I get it is a business, but isn't this the cause of all the financial problems we're in anyway? The Greedy few, in this case the council taking the little man for a ride. No wonder no one is starting small businesses when all this guff gets thrown at them.

Case in point, we tried to start a small cage at a club I am involved with, unfortunately the tax, business rates etc were so prohibitive towards making a small profit with which to put into the club that it made the whole venture unsustainable.

I see why so many people get frustrated!

   Lol Winey – its genius! (moo) but if I was culled, who would bring some common sense to this debate – you?

Ok Beef, what would you think a realistic rent is for a café based on this site? This is what the council needs to determine based on other similar businesses in the area. If £22k sound too much, how about £20k? or £18k? Either way, it’s a huge percentage increase on £2k! I wouldn’t have thought it is going to be £3k or £4k or even £5k, would you? I personally would guess at nearer £15k, but it needs to be based on turnover, profit business potential, etc. The landlord needs to determine the value of a café business on this particular site and not compare it to the rent the model railway club pays!!!

There seems to be a huge emotional outpouring for Andy and Pauline, like they are being thrown out on the streets, penniless, victims of a bully state! This is all very heart-warming, but I do not personally know them, and from a purely impartial, practical, honest point of view, they have been paying a completely unrealistic rent. I know it was a low-start deal, but this deal is designed to give a business a chance to get established so they can pay the ‘real’ rent when it kicks in. I would have thought they understood this before they signed up. It is extremely naive to sign a commercial tenancy agreement then allegedly invest £75k of your own money in a business without knowing what the rent increase will be. Sorry, but this is no way to operate. Andy and Pauline must be decent people and no doubt make a good cuppa. They are clearly very popular, but their business sense is questionable and may be their undoing…

   Didn't I read that DEFRA were introducing a cull? Something to do with Bovine TB? Any chance of it swinging by Farley Hill way?